[personal profile] posic
Петицию с призывом к признанию независимости Чечни можно подписать по адресу http://www.radikaly.ru или http://chechen.radicalparty.org/appeal/russian.php .

Date: 2002-02-23 08:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pe3yc.livejournal.com
˸íÿ, Âû ÷å÷åíåö?

Date: 2002-02-23 08:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Íåò. ß åâðåé.

Date: 2002-02-23 08:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pe3yc.livejournal.com
Âîïðîñ âïîëíå ðèòîðè÷åñêèé, îí ÿâëÿåòñÿ îñíîâàíèåì äëÿ ëîãè÷åñêè ñëåäóþùåãî, - à çà÷åì òîãäà Âàì íåçàâèñèìîñòü ×å÷íè?

Date: 2002-02-23 10:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Âòîðîé âîïðîñ òîæå âïîëíå ðèòîðè÷åñêèé, êàê î÷åâèäíî. Òåì íå ìåíåå, ÿ íà íåãî îòâå÷ó.

ß öåíþ ñâîáîäó è íå ëþáëþ, êîãäà íà íåå ïîêóøàþòñÿ. Ìíå íåíàâèñòíû ìàññîâûå óáèéñòâà è ãåíîöèäû. Äëÿ ìåíÿ íåïðèåìëåìà ñèòóàöèÿ, êîãäà ïåðå÷èñëåííûìè âåùàìè çàíèìàåòñÿ ïðàâèòåëüñòâî ìîåé ñòðàíû.

 ïðèçíàíèè íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè ÿ âèæó ñàìóþ íàäåæíóþ ïðàêòè÷åñêóþ ãàðàíòèþ òîãî, ÷òî ðîññèéñêîå ãîñóäàðñòâî è åãî àðìèÿ ïåðåñòàíóò óãðîæàòü ñâîáîäàì è áåçîïàñíîñòè ìåñòíîãî íàñåëåíèÿ. Ñòðåìëåíèå ÷å÷åíöåâ ê íåçàâèñèìîñòè î÷åâèäíî, è íèêàêîãî ïðàâà ñèëîé èõ óäåðæèâàòü ó ðîññèéñêèõ âëàñòåé íåò.

Date: 2002-02-23 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pe3yc.livejournal.com
Åñëè äàæå ñ÷èòàòü àïðèîðè, ÷òî Âû ãðàæäàíèí Ðîññèè è íå èìååòå èíîãî èíòåðåñà â ïðèçíàíèè íåçàâñèñìîñòè ×å÷íè, êðîìå çàÿâëåííîãî, òî åñòü èñêðåííè â ñâîèõ äåéñòâèÿõ, - òî è òîãäà Âû äîëæíû îòäàâàòü ñåáå îò÷¸ò îáî âñåõ íåãàòèâíûõ äëÿ Ðîññèè ïîñëåäñòâèÿõ ïðèçíàíèÿ íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè.

Åñëè æå Âû îòäà¸òå ñåáå òàêîé îò÷¸ò, òî ÿ áû õîòåë ñïðîñèòü Âàñ - íà êàêèõ îñíîâàíèÿõ Âû ïîëàãàåòå, ÷òî ïîëüçà îò ïðèçíàíèÿ íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè áóäåò çàâåäîìî áîëüøå òîãî âðåäà, êîòîðûé íåèçáåæíî áóäåò ñ íèì ñâÿçàí? Êàêèìè ñîîáðàæåíèÿìè Âû ðóêîâîäñòâîâàëèñü, âçâåøèâàÿ "çà" è ïðîòèâ"?



Date: 2002-02-23 01:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Ìíå íåèíòåðåñíî âñòóïàòü â îáñóæäåíèÿ ñ ïåðñîíàæåì, îòêðûòî ïîäâåðãàþùèì ñîìíåíèþ ìîþ èñêðåííîñòü. Ïî ñóùåñòâó ìîãó íàïîñëåäîê çàìåòèòü, ÷òî íèêàêèõ "îòðèöàòåëüíûõ äëÿ Ðîññèè ïîñëåäñòâèé ïðèçíàíèÿ íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè" íå ñóùåñòâóåò, ðàçóìååòñÿ.

Date: 2002-02-23 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pe3yc.livejournal.com
Íåèíòåðåñíî, - òàê è íå âñòóïàéòå, íèêòî Âàñ íå íåâîëèò. Ñêàæó ëèøü, ÷òî ÿ íå ïîäâåðãàþ ñîìíåíèþ Âàøó èñêðåííîñòü õîòÿ áû ïîòîìó, ÷òî ó ìåíÿ ïîêà íåò ê ýòîìó äîñòàòî÷íûõ îñíîâàíèé.

Áîëåå òîãî, ÿ â ïðåäûäóùåì ñâî¸ì ïîñòå äàæå ïðåäîñòàâèë Âàì çàâåäîìûé êðåäèò äîâåðèÿ, èñêëþ÷èâ èç îáñóæäåíèÿ âîçìîæíóþ Âàøó íåèñêðåííîñòü. Âèäèòå ëè, èñòî÷íèêè ôèíàíñèðîâàíèÿ íåêîòîðûõ ëåâîðàäèêàëüíûõ è èì ïîäîáíûõ äâèæåíèé ïîçâîëÿþò äåëàòü äàëåêî èäóùèå ïðåäïîëîæåíèÿ, ïîýòîìó ÿ ïðåäïî÷¸ë çàðàíåå âûâåñòè òàêèå ïðåäïîëîæåíèÿ çà ðàìêè âîçìîæíîé äèñêóññèè.

Èòàê, ÿâëÿÿñü ðîññèéñêèì ãðàæäàíèíîì, è æåëàÿ ïîáåäû ïðîòèâîñòîÿùåé Ðîññèè ñòîðîíå (http://www.livejournal.com/talkpost.bml?replyto=28665774), Âû, íå èìåÿ íèêàêèõ âíåìîðàëüíûõ ê òîìó ñòèìóëîâ, óòâåðæäàåòå, ÷òî ïðèçíàíèå íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè ïðèíåñ¸ò Ðîññèè òîëüêî è èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî âûãîäó.

ß Âàñ ïðàâèëüíî ïîíèìàþ?

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Date: 2002-02-23 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trurle.livejournal.com
. Ïî ñóùåñòâó ìîãó íàïîñëåäîê çàìåòèòü, ÷òî íèêàêèõ "îòðèöàòåëüíûõ äëÿ Ðîññèè ïîñëåäñòâèé ïðèçíàíèÿ íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè" íå ñóùåñòâóåò, ðàçóìååòñÿ.
Ïðèçíàíèå íåçàâèñèìîñòè ×å÷íè ÿâëÿåòñÿ îäíîâðåìåííî ïðèçíàíèåì êîíôåäåðàòèâíîãî õàðàêòåðà ðîññèéñêîãî ãîñóäàðñòâà. Íå âäàâàÿñü â îáñóæäåíèå æåëàòåëüíîñòè èëè íåæåëàòåëüíîñòè òàêîãî êîíñòèòóöèîííîãî èçìåíåíèÿ, êàêîâû, ïî Âàøåìó ìíåíèþ, áóäóò ïîñëåäñòâèÿ òàêîãî øàãà?
Îæèäàåòå ëè Âû îò íåçàâèñèìîé ×å÷íè ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâà â ïðàâîîõðàíèòåëüíîé îáëàñòè? Åñëè äà, òî íà ÷åì îñíîâàíà òàêàÿ óâåðåííîñòü? Åñëè íåò òî êàê áóäåò óñòðîåíà ãðàíèöà ñ ÷å÷åíñêèì ãîñóäàðñòâîì?
Íå ñîáëàãîâîëèòå ëè Âû ïîäåëèòüñÿ ñâîèìè âçãëÿäàìè íà ïðè÷èíû, òîëêíóâøèå ã-íà Áàñàåâà âîåâàòü íà òåððèòîðèè Äàãåñòàíà?

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Date: 2002-02-24 11:09 am (UTC)
stas: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stas
Î÷åâèäíî ñòðåìëåíèå ê íåçàâèñèìîñòè íåñêîëüêèõ áàíäèòñêèõ êëàíîâ. Íàðîä, êàê âñåãäà, áåçìîëâñòâóåò è îäíîâðåìåííî, íàñêîëüêî âîçìîæíî, àêòèâåíî ëèíÿåò îòòóäà. Äëÿ äåêëàðàöèè æå 'æåëàíèé íàðîäà' âñåãäà ìîæíî âûáðàòü ïîäõîäÿùåãî áàíäèòà, çàïëàòèòü åìó äåíåã è ïîëó÷èòü 'íàðîäíîå ìíåíèå', êîòîðîå áëèçêî âàøåìó ñåðäöó. ×òî áóäåò äåëàòü áàíäèò ñ íàðîäîì, ïîëó÷èâ âîæäåëåííóþ âëàñòü, ìîæåòå ñåáå ïðåäñòàâèòü. Ýòîò ñöåíàðèé îïðîáîâàí â òå÷åíèè ñîòå ëåò.

Date: 2002-02-24 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Æèâóùåìó â ñòåêëÿííîì äîìå, íå ñëåäóåò áðîñàòüñÿ êàìíÿìè. Âñÿêîå ãîñóäàðñòâî åñòü "áàíäèòñêèé êëàí". Èõ "íàëîãè" íà äðóãîì ÿçûêå íàçûâàþòñÿ ðýêåò, "äåíåæíàÿ ïîëèòèêà" åñòü ïðîñòî ôàëüøèâîìîíåòíè÷åñòâî, "ïðèçûâ â àðìèþ" -- íè ÷òî èíîå, êàê ðàáîâëàäåíèå.

Ïðèìåíèòåëüíî ê íàöèîíàëüíî-îñâîáîäèòåëüíûì äâèæåíèÿì ìû èìååì ñòàíäàðòíóþ ñèòóàöèþ, êîãäà ïðàâèòåëü èìïåðñêèé íàçûâàåò "áàíäèòîì" ïîòåíöèàëüíîãî ïðàâèòåëÿ ìåñòíîãî, íàöèîíàëüíîãî. Ðàçíèöà ìåæäó ïåðâûì è âòîðûì èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî â òîì, ÷òî âòîðîé ïîëüçóåòñÿ ïîääåðæêîé ìåñòíîãî íàñåëåíèÿ, à ïåðâûé åå äàâíî óòðàòèë, èëè âîâñå íèêîãäà íå èìåë. Íàâåðíîå, ïî÷òè âñå ñîâðåìåííûå ãîñóäàðñòâà ïðîèçîøëè îò òàêèõ "áàíäèòîâ".

Áàíäèòû-òåððîðèñòû Áåãèí ñ Áåí Ãóðèîíîì âçîðâàëè îòåëü, ïîëíûé ãðàæäàíñêèõ ëèö âñåõ íàöèîíàëüíîñòåé -- è ñîçäàëñÿ Èçðàèëü.  ïðîìåæóòêàõ ìåæäó ñîâìåñòíîé îðãàíèçàöèåé áàíäèòñêèõ íàïàäåíèé îíè åùå ïðîáàâëÿëèñü òåì, ÷òî âûäàâàëè äðóã äðóãà çàêîííûì âëàñòÿì, à êîãäà, íàêîíåö, âûíóäèëè àíãëè÷àí ïîêèíóòü ñòðàíó, ïðèíÿëèñü ïàëèòü äðóã â äðóãà èç ïóøêè -- íó ÷èñòî áàíäèòû! Áàíäèò-èçìåííèê Äæåôôåðñîí íàïèñàë ñâîþ, ñ ïîçâîëåíèÿ ñêàçàòü, "äåêëàðàöèþ íåçàâèñèìîñòè" -- è âîçíèêëà Àìåðèêà. Áàíäèòñòâóþùèå êíÿçüÿ âûøëè èç ïîâèíîâåíèÿ çàêîííûõ âëàñòåé Îðäû -- ïîÿâèëàñü öàðñêàÿ Ðîññèÿ. Äðóãèå áàíäèòû ñâåðãëè íàñëåäíèêîâ ïåðâûõ -- ñîçäàëè ÑÑÑÐ; òðåòüè áàíäèòû-ïðåäàòåëè (àãåíòû âëèÿíèÿ) ñíåñëè çàêîííóþ âëàñòü âòîðûõ -- óñòðîèëè Ðîññèþ íûíåøíþþ.

Âñå îñòàëüíîå â Âàøåì ïîñòèíãå íåâåðíî. Êàê îáðàùàëèñü ñ ÷å÷åíñêèì íàðîäîì áàíäèòû ìîñêîâñêèå -- ñì. çàãîëîâîê ìîåé çàïèñè, ê êîòîðîé çäåñü êîììåíòû ïèøóò. Õóæå ýòîãî íèêàêîé ìåñòíûé íà÷àëüíèê òàì íè÷åãî íå ñäåëàåò -- ñì. î÷åíü ìèðíóþ (ñðàâíèòåëüíî) èñòîðèþ íåçàâèñèìîé ×å÷íè ïðè Äóäàåâå è Ìàñõàäîâå, â ïðîìåæóòêàõ ìåæäó ðóññêèìè âòîðæåíèÿìè. Íàðîä ÷å÷åíñêèé íå òî ÷òî íå áåçìîëâñòâóåò, ãîëîñ åãî ñëûøåí âî âñåì ìèðå -- ïîâñþäó, ãäå èçðåäêà âêëþ÷àþò òåëåâèçîð èëè çàãëÿäûâàþò â ãàçåòû ñ íîâîñòÿìè èç çîíû áîåâûõ äåéñòâèé. À áåãóò îòòóäà ëþäè ïîòîìó, ÷òî èõ ñòðàíó ðàçðóøèëà è ïðîäîëæàåò ðàçðóøàòü "ðîññèéñêàÿ àðìèÿ" (âñÿêî îïàñíåéøåå áàíäôîðìèðîâàíèå â îêðóãå). Ñëîâî "çà÷èñòêà" Âû, ÿ íàäåþñü, ñëûøàëè?

Date: 2002-02-24 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gera.livejournal.com
Áàíäèòû-òåððîðèñòû Áåãèí ñ Áåí Ãóðèîíîì âçîðâàëè îòåëü, ïîëíûé ãðàæäàíñêèõ ëèö âñåõ íàöèîíàëüíîñòåé -- è ñîçäàëñÿ Èçðàèëü.

˸íÿ, íó çà÷åì æå äåëàòü øèðîêîâåùàòåëüíûå çàÿâëåíèÿ î òîì, î ÷¸ì Âû ñëûøàëè ëèøü îòäàë¸ííûé çâîí.

 îòåëå King David áûëî âçîðâàíî òî åãî êðûëî, ãäå ðàñïîëàãàëàñü øòàá-êâàðòèðà áðèòàíñêîé âîåííîé àäìèíèñòðàöèè. Äëÿ îáû÷íîãî èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ âîîáùå áûëà çàðåçåðâèðîâàíà ëèøü òðåòü îòåëÿ.
Îðãàíèçàòîðû ýòîãî âçðûâà íå ïëàíèðîâàëè íèêîãî óáèòü - ïîýòîìó îíè çàáëîãîâðåìåííî, çà ïîë÷àñà äàëè ïðåäóïðåæäåíèå, â êîòîðîì ïðèçûâàëè ýâàêóèðîâàòü çäàíèå (÷òî ñäåëàíî íå áûëî). Îíè äàæå ïîçâîíèëè â ñòîÿùèé ïî ñîñåäñòâó ôðàíöóçñêèé êîíñóëàò. Èíûìè ñëîâàìè, îíè ïðèëîæèëè âñå óñèëèÿ, ÷òîáû èçáåæàòü êàêèõ-ëèáî æåðòâ. Óäàð æå ïî âîåííîìó êîìàíäîâàíèþ âðàãà - ýòî òèïè÷íàÿ âîåííàÿ îïåðàöèÿ.

Íàïîìíþ òàêæå, ÷òî ïðîèçîøëî ýòî â òî âðåìÿ êîãäà åâðîïåéñêèõ åâðååâ, ÷óäîì ïåðåæèâøèõ ãèòëåðîâñêèå êîíöëàãåðÿ, è äîáðàâøèõñÿ äî Ïàëåñòèíû, áðèòàíñêèå ñîëäàòû îòïðàâëÿëè â äðóãèå ëàãåðÿ çà êîëþ÷óþ ïðîâîëîêó - íà Êèïðå.

Áàíäèò-èçìåííèê Äæåôôåðñîí ... Áàíäèòñòâóþùèå êíÿçüÿ âûøëè èç ïîâèíîâåíèÿ çàêîííûõ âëàñòåé Îðäû ...

Âû äóìàåòå, ÷òî îò ïðîèçâîëüíîãî óïîòðåáëåíèÿ ñëîâà "áàíäèò", íàñòîÿùèå áàíäèòû èì áûòü ïåðåñòàíóò?

Âîññòàíèå ïðîòèâ ñóùåñòâóþùåé âëàñòè - ýòî íå áàíäèòèçì. Íî çàõâàò çàëîæíèêîâ, ñ òðåáîâàíèåì âûêóïà, îòðóáàíèåì ïàëüöåâ, óøåé è ïðî÷èõ ÷àñòåé - ýòî áàíäèòèçì. Óáèéñòâî ëþäåé â áîëüíèöå - ýòî áàíäèòèçì. Ïðåäíàìåðåííîå óáèéñòâî ëþäåé ïóò¸ì âçðûâîâ çäàíèé - ýòî áàíäèòèçì. È òåððîðèçì. È ýòî íå ñëó÷àéíî, ÷òî ÷å÷åíñêèå áîåâèêè àêòèâíî ñîòðóäíè÷àþò ñ Àëü-Êàéäîé è äàæå âîþþò íà å¸ ñòîðîíå â Àôãàíèñòàíå.

Date: 2002-02-25 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emdin.livejournal.com
À Âàì, ëþáåçíûé, íå ñîâåñòíî æèòü â áàíäèòñêîì ãîñóäàðñòâå? Ïîêóïàòü åäó â ìàãàçèíàõ, åçäèòü â ìåòðî, ïëàòèòü íàëîãè (õîòÿ Âû èõ íàâåðíÿêà íå ïëàòèòå)? Èëè Âàø ìîðàëüíûõ ðåëÿòèâèçì ïîçâîëÿåò íàçûâàòü ãîñóäàðñòâî áàíäèòñêèì è âìåñòå ñ òåì ñîâåðøåííî ñïîêîéíî â íåì ïðîæèâàòü?

Date: 2002-02-24 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vyastik.livejournal.com
Äîðîãîé Ëåíÿ! Ïåðñîíàëüíî Âàì êàê åâðåþ: http://www.conservator.ru/lib/club/zaphod/antisemit.shtml

Date: 2002-02-24 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-eremei502.livejournal.com
Âÿñòèê, Âàø ïîðûâ âûçûâàåò ó ìåíÿ èñêðåííåå ïîíèìàíèå, íî âåäü ìû îá ýòîì ñòî ðàç óæå ãîâîðèëè, è âîò Âàì òîëüêî ëèøíèé ïðèìåð. Ëåíÿ òàêîé æå åâðåé, êàê Âû êèòàåö. Ýòî - ê âîïðîñó î íåæåëàíèè Îáîãóåâà ïî ñåé äåíü äàòü âíÿòíîå îïðåäåëåíèå ýòíîñà è îòäåëèòü îò íåãî íàäíàöèîíàëüíûå èäåîëîãèè. Îí è íå äàñò, ïðè âñåì ìîåì ê íåìó óâàæåíèè, ïîòîìó ÷òî ðåàëüíîñòü âûâàëèâàåòñÿ èç ñõåì.

Ïðè ÷åì çäåñü Îáîãóåâ?

Date: 2002-02-24 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vyastik.livejournal.com
Åðåìåé, Âû ñõîäèëè ïî óêàçàííîé ìíîþ ññûëêå?

Re: Ïðè ÷åì çäåñü Îáîãóåâ?

Date: 2002-02-24 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-eremei502.livejournal.com
Ïî ññûëêå ñõîäèë, êîíå÷íî. À Îáîãóåâ çäåñü èìåííî ïðè òîì, ÷òî â ñòàðîì ñïîðå (â êîòîðîì Âû, ïîìíèòñÿ, òîæå ïðèíèìàëè ó÷àñòèå) ïî ïîâîäó ïðîòèâîðå÷èé ìåæäó âíÿòíîé íàöèîíàëüíîé ñàìîèäåíòèôèêàöèåé è ò.í. "îáùå÷åëîâå÷åñêèìè öåííîñòÿìè" òàê è íå áûëà, óâû, ïîñòàâëåíà òî÷êà. Åñëè ïîìíèòå, ÿ íàñòàèâàë íà òîì, ÷òî âòîðîå äå-ôàêòî îòìåíÿåò ïåðâîå, è ïîòîìó àïåëëÿöèè ê íàöèîíàëüíîìó ñîçíàíèþ â ýòèõ ñëó÷àÿõ ïðîñòî òåðÿþò ñìûñë.
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Ïðîñòî íàöèîíàëüíîå ñîçíàíèå áûâàåò ðàçíîå. Áûâàåò íà óðîâíå "íàøèõ áüþò" ("ìî÷è åãî -- äðóãîé òàêîé æå ðûæèé â÷åðà íàøó ñåñòðó îáèäåë"); áûâàþò áîëåå ðàçóìíûå âàðèàíòû.

Date: 2002-02-24 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vyastik.livejournal.com
Îõ, Åðåìåé, ñ Âàøåãî ïîçâîëåíèÿ íå áóäó âîçîáíîâëÿòü ñòàðûé ñïîð – íåò íè ñèë, íè âðåìåíè. Òåì áîëåå, ðå÷ü â äàííîé âåòêå èäåò ñîâñåì íå îá ýòîì.
˸íå íðàâèòñÿ çàùèùàòü òåõ, êòî ïðè ñëó÷àå åãî áû æåñòîêî óáèë. Ýòî îáûêíîâåííûé ìàçîõèçì â ñî÷åòàíèè ñ êëèêóøåñòâîì. Ãðîìêèå ôðàçû ñ óïîìèíàíèåì ÍÒÅÈ â ñòèëå Ñ.Ï. Îáîãóåâà çäåñü íè ïðè ÷åì.

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From: [identity profile] ex-eremei502.livejournal.com - Date: 2002-02-24 03:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2002-02-24 04:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oboguev.livejournal.com
Ìèõàèë,

ß äåéñòâèòåëüíî óòðàòèë èíòåðåñ ê ðÿäó òåì (èíòåëëåêòóàëüíî äëÿ ìåíÿ èñ÷åðïàííûõ – â ÷àñòíîñòè, ÿ íå âèæó ÷òî ìîæíî áûëî áû äîáàâèòü ê èññëåäîâàíèþ Ìàê-Äîíàëüäà è íåñê. äðóãèõ àâòîðîâ, çà èñêëþ÷åíèåì äåòàëèðîâêè), è õîòÿ «äåëà íóæíî äîäåëûâàòü» (è Âû ñîâåðøåííî ïðàâû – ÷òî íóæíî), íî ïîñêîëüêó ó ìåíÿ â äàííûé ìîìåíò åñòü ïðåèçáûòî÷íî áîëåå çàíèìàòåëüíûõ è ïðèÿòíûõ çàíÿòèé, íèêàê íå ìîãó ñåáÿ ïðèíóäèòü ñêëîíèòüñÿ íàä èíòåðåñóþùåé Âàñ òåìîé.

«Îòäåëÿòü íàäíàöèîíàëüíûå èäåîëîãèè îò ýòíîñà» íèçà÷åì íå íóæíî, è íèêòî èõ íå ñîåäèíÿë; âî âñÿêîì ñëó÷àå ÿ. Ðå÷ü ìîæíî âåñòè î ïðè÷èíàõ ïñèõîëîãè÷åñêîé ïðåäðàñïîëîæåííîñòè èíäèâèäóóìîâ ê òåì èëè èíûì èäåîëîãèÿì è ïðîñëåæèâàòü ýòèîëîãèþ èõ ìîòèâàöèè äî èõ ýòíè÷íîñòè, ò.å. ó÷èòûâàòü ýòíè÷íîñòü êàê î÷åâèäíûé ôàêòîð ìîòèâèðóþùèé ÷åëîâåêà ê îïðåäåëåííîìó ìèðîâîñïðèÿòèþ è ïîâåäåíèþ (íå äåòåðìèíèðóÿ èõ, ðàçóìååòñÿ) [*], â ÷àñòíîñòè – èñïîâåäàíèþ (âîâñå íå îáÿçàòåëüíî: ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîìó è ñèììåòðè÷íîìó, à íå ñèòóàòèâíîìó) îïðåäåëåííûõ èäåîëîãèé è èñïîëüçîâàíèþ èõ â êà÷åñòâå ìàíèïóëÿòèâíîãî èíñòðóìåíòà âëèÿþùåãî íà áàëàíñ ýòíè÷åñêèõ îòíîøåíèé è ïðîäâèæåíèå ýòíîãðóïïîâûõ èíòåðåñîâ.

×åìó è ÿâëÿåòñÿ êàê íåëüçÿ áîëåå íàãëÿäíîé èëëþñòðàöèåé ñîçåðöàåìàÿ êàðòèíà (ñîâåðøåííî, ìåæäó ïðî÷èì, â ñòèëå Portnoy’s Complaint, òîëüêî ÷òî âìåñòî êóøåòêè ïñèõîàíàëèòèêà èñïîëüçóåòñÿ ÆÆ).

(Ðàçìûøëåíèÿ ïðî ÍÒÅÈ ñþäà äàæå íå îòíîñÿòñÿ – ýòî áûë áû ñëèøêîì òîíêèé èíñòðóìåíò.)




[*] Ñêàçàííîå – ïî÷òè òàâòîëîãèÿ, íî íå ìíîþ æå âûíóæäåííàÿ.

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From: [identity profile] ex-eremei502.livejournal.com - Date: 2002-02-25 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2002-02-25 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] r-l.livejournal.com
Ñòîï, Ìèøà! Ýòî Ëåîíèä ñêàçàë "ÿ åâðåé". Òóò óæ áåñïîëåçíî ñïîðèòü íàñ÷åò ýòãíè÷íîñòè.

Date: 2002-02-25 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-eremei502.livejournal.com
Ðîìà, à ÿ íå çíàþ, ÷òî îí èìåë â âèäó. Íà ñëîâàõ âñå åâðåè, âñå ðóññêèå è âñå êàëìûêè. À íà÷èíêà-òî êàêàÿ? Íà óðîâíå äåêëàðàöèé èäåíòè÷íîñòü íå ïîäòâåðæäàåòñÿ.

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Date: 2004-08-10 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
r_l 2002-02-25 02:49 (from 213.219.127.140)

Date: 2002-02-24 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emdin.livejournal.com
Ñ êàêîãî ïåðåïóãó? Âû èñïîâåäóåòå èóäàèçì èëè, áûòü ìîæåò, æèâåòå â Èçðàèëå?

Date: 2002-02-24 03:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] posic.livejournal.com
Íå ïîíèìàþ. Â ñîâðåìåííîì ìèðå ìíîæåñòâî åâðååâ íå ïðèäåðæèâàþòñÿ íèêàêîé ðåëèãèè è æèâóò âíå Èçðàèëÿ. ×òî ëè Âû íèêîãäà íå îá ýòîì íå ñëûøàëè?

Date: 2002-02-25 02:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emdin.livejournal.com
Íó, åñëè â Âàøåì ñîâðåìåííîì ìèðå âûðîäêè îáû÷íî èìåíóþòñÿ áîðöàìè çà ñâîáîäó, òî, êîíå÷íî æå, çàïèñü â ïàñïîðòå íàâåðíÿêà çàìåíÿåò Âàì íàöèîíàëüíóþ èäåíòè÷íîñòü. Íî ÷òî òîëêó â Âàøåì åâðåéñòâå — åñëè ãîâîðèòå Âû íà ðóññêîì ÿçûêå, à æèâåòå â Ðîññèè? Ìîæåò áûòü, Âû øïèîí?

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Leonid Positselski

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