Russian, Jewish, Israeli
Nov. 22nd, 2016 03:53 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
posichttps://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1615779398727237&id=100008855778588&comment_id=1615790725392771
I do not know and do not want to comment on the rest of the issues raised here, but one thing I wanted to say: it is not true that "Asians who were born in the U.S. are just as American as Bannon himself, just have a different skin color".
I, for one, was born in Voronezh and grew up in a town near Moscow. My parents were born in Western Ukraine. My mother tongue is Russian. My parents' mother tongue was Russian. My skin color, or whatever, is not even that much different from that of most other people born in Voronezh. Still, I am not "as Russian as all the other people born in Voronezh".
I am a Jew. This makes me different from most other people born in Voronezh, and from most other people who grew up near Moscow, etc. This is important. I always felt this way since I learned of the fact. I may be not following the teachings of the Jewish faith, and may be not even particularly familiar with the Jewish culture, etc. I may be a bad Jew.
I am entitled to equal civil and citizenship rights to those of the people of Slavic or Russian extraction in Russia. I am not entitled to call myself "as Russian as everybody else in Russia". It simply would not be true. As a matter of simple fact. I am not. Me demanding that Russian politicians accept me as someone who is "as Russian as everybody else in Russia" would be absurd.
Presently I've emigrated from Russia to Israel over a political disagreement; now I am a citizen of both countries. This is irrelevant. While in Russia, I am a representative of a traditional ethnic minority which lived in Russia for centuries. Still, I am not Russian.
While outside of Russia, I am a citizen of Russia who has to accept a measure of responsibility for the policies of the Russian government (the desire to reduce this responsibility was one of the motives behind my decision to emigrate). As well as, of course, an even greater degree of responsibility for the policies of the Israeli government (which I am much more comfortable with).
While outside of Russia, I may call myself Russian or Israeli, depending on the context, to point out to the fact that I accept these responsibilities of a citizen (also, of a person who grew up in a certain culture, etc). When asked for details, I would always explain that I am a Russian Jew who emigrated to Israel. I cannot pretend to be simply "as Russian as everybody else in Russia", even while talking to the foreigners. That would be misrepresentation of simple facts, which are potentially quite relevant in many contexts.
I do not know and do not want to comment on the rest of the issues raised here, but one thing I wanted to say: it is not true that "Asians who were born in the U.S. are just as American as Bannon himself, just have a different skin color".
I, for one, was born in Voronezh and grew up in a town near Moscow. My parents were born in Western Ukraine. My mother tongue is Russian. My parents' mother tongue was Russian. My skin color, or whatever, is not even that much different from that of most other people born in Voronezh. Still, I am not "as Russian as all the other people born in Voronezh".
I am a Jew. This makes me different from most other people born in Voronezh, and from most other people who grew up near Moscow, etc. This is important. I always felt this way since I learned of the fact. I may be not following the teachings of the Jewish faith, and may be not even particularly familiar with the Jewish culture, etc. I may be a bad Jew.
I am entitled to equal civil and citizenship rights to those of the people of Slavic or Russian extraction in Russia. I am not entitled to call myself "as Russian as everybody else in Russia". It simply would not be true. As a matter of simple fact. I am not. Me demanding that Russian politicians accept me as someone who is "as Russian as everybody else in Russia" would be absurd.
Presently I've emigrated from Russia to Israel over a political disagreement; now I am a citizen of both countries. This is irrelevant. While in Russia, I am a representative of a traditional ethnic minority which lived in Russia for centuries. Still, I am not Russian.
While outside of Russia, I am a citizen of Russia who has to accept a measure of responsibility for the policies of the Russian government (the desire to reduce this responsibility was one of the motives behind my decision to emigrate). As well as, of course, an even greater degree of responsibility for the policies of the Israeli government (which I am much more comfortable with).
While outside of Russia, I may call myself Russian or Israeli, depending on the context, to point out to the fact that I accept these responsibilities of a citizen (also, of a person who grew up in a certain culture, etc). When asked for details, I would always explain that I am a Russian Jew who emigrated to Israel. I cannot pretend to be simply "as Russian as everybody else in Russia", even while talking to the foreigners. That would be misrepresentation of simple facts, which are potentially quite relevant in many contexts.
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no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 06:16 pm (UTC)Leaving the Native Indians and the descendants of the Negro slaves aside, the most American of all Americans are the WASPs. Theirs is the mainstream American culture. This is the traditional point of view.
If we are to trust Wikipedia, Steve Bannon is an Irish Catholic. Back in the XIX century, and perhaps even in the first half of the XX century, his family wouldn't be considered quite American. Catholics were a distrusted minority (believed to be more faithful to the Pope than to the U.S., or whatever). Having an Irish Catholic president was unthinkable. Then it became possible and happened.
In quite recent times, we were still hearing talk about the "Catholic seat" on the Supreme Court. Now perhaps this has moved in the direction of a "Hispanic seat". Irish Catholics may be not yet as mainstream as the WASPs, but they are close. A Polish Catholic president may be a tougher sell, as of today, than an Irish Catholic one. Having a Jewish president is still hard to imagine. This means that the Jews are farther from the mainstream than the Irish.
The difference between Americans of German and (say) of British descent was important in some contexts (e.g., immediately before and during the World War II). Now it perhaps became not so important.
***
Whether the Chinese born in the U.S. can be trusted in the U.S. is a question for you Americans to decide among yourselves and with these Chinese. I certainly hope that it will be eventually resolved in the positive sense. I do not see how declaring this question to be nonexistent as a matter of linguistical semantics may help bringing about its resolution.
no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 11:04 pm (UTC)All I am saying is that it cannot be taken to be true "by the definition", or "according to the Constitution", or "as a matter of semantics", etc. Whether it is true as a matter of actual perception by this or that group of people, is an entirely different question. Having never been to the U.S. after 1999, I am not at all competent to speak about this.
Who is competent to speak about this, on the other hand, of all people? Who is working with this on a daily basis? Steve Bannon is. He is a politician and a political campaign manager. Representing and reflecting people's perceptions is the essence of his job.
It may well be true that his constituency is not exactly the Californians, or not exactly the academics, etc. My understanding is that he is considered for a political appointment where he would work for the U.S. President or for the Federal Government, not for California. He is also not being appointed to represent the academics.
Whoever disagrees with Bannon's views is entitled to being in opposition to him being appointed, of course. All I am saying is that, for as long as the Federal Government plays any role in the areas of education and science at all -- which I would think it should better refrain from playing, but for as long as it does -- I find nothing particularly unusual in a discussion of the prevalence of the ethnic Asians in certain segments of the American academia, coming from the mouth of a potential presidential appointee.
no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 06:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 06:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 07:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-11-22 08:09 pm (UTC)That you do not demonstrate openly the fact that you are taking it as an honor, speaks to your modesty.
If you are literally maimed or killed for that, it's a different thing. If many people are maimed or killed in this kind of way, it is certainly no good. Fortunately, this is not what has happened to our generation (not to my generation, as of today).